An experiment in engagement
On March 6th, 2008 an email was sent within the team...
I was thinking tonight about how users engage with content and what makes a site sticky. If you think about it often the best thing about a piece of content is not the content itself but the discussion that ensues. Amazon's reviews, for example, are usually more interesting than the actual product, and the comments at Digg/Slashdot etc. are often more engaging than the story itself. What if you were able to create a site where the content was the discussion and the content by its nature incited debate?
Now, we’re an ecommerce company, and so we constantly work to improve the site and the interaction rates of our customers. Unfortunately, appliance parts aren’t always something that grab’s the user’s attention. We help thousands of people every day, but very few of them interact with the site in a social way. SoapBoxxer was an attempt to create something that really engages its users, to see if we could learn something about the way users want to interact with a site and with each other. Of course, if SoapBoxxer became the next Digg we wouldn’t exactly complain.
The SoapBoxxer project also fit well into some work that our development team was doing – learning Ruby on Rails.
Developing SoapBoxxer in Ruby on Rails
We’re a Dot Net development shop, but we’re intrigued by the potential in rapid application development, and in RoR in particular. As an example of the speed at which you can develop in Rails we had the first version of SoapBoxxer out and in the wild on March 10th, just two business days after the conversation started.
We were able to pull together a mock-up of SB in such a short time because of Rails and because we cut a few corners. The initial version had no user accounts, no sessions, nothing. If the user took the time to refresh the page they could vote again (many did).
Everyone who came to the page was greeted with an opinion and giant links that said “Agree” and “Disagree”. Once they registered their vote they could see the voting results and the comment section opened up so they could read the comments of others or add their own. They could also enter some text in the opinion box in the header and create their own opinion for others to vote on. Still, the rudimentary system had some amazing results:Visits: 1,972
Interactions (votes, comments, new opinions): 3,000
Interaction Rate: 152%
Votes: 2,730
Vote Rate: 138%
Comments: 226
Comment Rate: 11.4%
Opinions: 61
Opinion Rate: 3%
We were really excited when these first numbers came in. It proved that if given the opportunity users would produce lots of great content – all you have to do is get out of their way by providing a simple way to do it.
From there, the site just sort of took off. We redeveloped it somewhat properly in RoR, launched it and allowed the users to make it into whatever they wanted. Along the way we learned a few things.
What we learned
1. Users will interact if it’s easy
2. The world is full of thoughtful users with reasoned opinions
3. The world is full of trolls, spammers, bigots and narrow-minded partisans
4. The community will control spam if given the tools
5. Every loophole will be exploited
6. Social networks must grow to survive
Users will interact if it’s easy
Our first version of SoapBoxxer was completely stripped down – all it had was an opinion, agree and disagree links, and the option to add an opinion in the header. From the first 2,000 visitors to this simple version we had:
2,730 votes cast (1.37 / visit)
226 comments (.113 / visit)
61 soapboxxes (.031 / visit)
Eventually we got these interaction rates to a staggering level:
Vote 42.5%
Comment 5.6%
Create soapboxx 0.9%
Join 1.7%
So, 42.5% of users who came to us through a site like StumbleUpon or from a friend’s email would vote. 1.7% joined, even though there was no need to join in order to interact – they opted in to joining.
The world is full of thoughtful users with reasoned opinions
I, personally, was constantly amazed at the level of discourse at SoapBoxxer. My favorite soapboxx of all time was an early one – “SoapBoxxer has changed my views on a lot of subjects through discussion”. When we originally discussed the idea I secretly feared that it would end up as a platform for flame wars, but that was not the case. In fact, the majority of soapboxxers were surprisingly reasonable.
The world is full of trolls, spammers, bigots and narrow-minded partisans
I won’t get into the details here, but you’ll have to trust me on this – some people like to ruin things for other people. I don’t know exactly why they want to do it, but they do. And I’m not talking about tugging the pigtails of a girl they like so they’ll get noticed. No, there are people that will silently and anonymously attempt to destroy what other people are working on with no apparent gain. Any social network needs tools to control these people.

You can see that even though there was a fair bit of spam, there was far more wheat than chaff.
The community will control spam if given the tools
We gave users the ability to flag items as spam, and they used it effectively. We were concerned that there would be abuse but generally there was none (eventually there was abuse, but only for manipulating authority). We contemplated allowing users to ban other users (it would have come in handy, see above) but decided it would turn SoapBoxxer into a police state. We did restrict spam flagging to users with a minimum authority, as we felt that the longer you’d been around, the less likely you were to trash the place. It did seem to work.
Every loophole will be exploited
When we devised the authority system it was intended as a way for users to identify who was a helpful, long-term user, and who was just a random spammer. It immediately became a subject of great debate. Most people denied its importance, quietly worked at increasing theirs, then gloated when they displaced another SoapBoxxer. My favorite quote came soon after the introduction of authority: “I just spent my entire evening/morning/lunch break on soapboxxer for this pointless 'authority'”
Eventually, users figured out that they best way to win authority was destroying the authority of others. Bots were written to grow authority or trash others. We were always open about what generated authority (every action that affected anyone's authority was quantified as you did it) but still people weren't always happy and many conspiracy theorists debated the ins and outs of authority.
Social networks must grow to survive
This is not something that we necessarily “learned” but an important point that can’t be ignored. We tried everything to grow SoapBoxxer. Early on (the first spike in the chart) we got onto Digg. Unfortunately, the site wasn’t able to handle the load and we went down. While we gained some new users before the failure (and they were particularly likely to interact) it just wasn’t enough. We were never able to get featured prominently on Digg again, despite several attempts – it seems you only get one kick at that cat.

We always felt that a social network must grow from the users, not from artificial means like getting on the Digg home page or from StumbleUpon. We focused on user invitations as a means for growing our network, and while we had some success it was never able to exceed attrition. What we found is that while Facebook is about interacting with your real-world friends online SoapBoxxer was about interacting with strangers in a new environment. An oft-repeated sentiment was that people wouldn’t want their friends on SoapBoxxer because it would strip away their anonymity.
In the end, it has become clear that SoapBoxxer will not grow on its own. Certainly, it would never make any money - even if we added advertising the revenue would be insignificant. SoapBoxxer was an experiment, and like all experiments it must come to an end. To our dedicated users, thank you for your interest and good luck.
92 comments:
Wow. Thanks.
I hope this clarifies things for you, and I do hope that you're able to find a way to maintain contact with the soapboxxers you've met over the last year, macnamera.
Hi KangAndKodos,
I would seriously really like to continue this project. Can you please contact me?
It was a bit of shock. Some of us thought this was an experiment but obviously we didn't know. At the very least it gives an answer to what SB was. That was killing me having no idea. Still wish it wasn't leaving but you have to do what you have to do I suppose. I think I have made it clear that I have had a lot of love for this site and the people it brought in so I have to thank you for that. Thank you. It was a fun ride here.
I...I feel so violated. (Actually, there was some interesting discourse on the site, and I really enjoyed some of the conversations. As we become more of an "isolated yet connected" society, I found it nice to be able to connect with actual people here and there. Unless, of course all of the other responses were automated. of course, then, the likelihood that I am an automated response is also somewhat higher. Tsk. Justjoeindenver
Damn... It's been incredibly fun, and enlightening. I'm sad to see it go.
So... Where do I pick up my check for being such an awesome test subject?
For the record, I still think you suck. What company are you from? Why did you announce the end of the experiment before and took back your announcement? Are you sharing with us guinea pigs the results of your experiment? A little more openness, for once, would be a nice touch.
Interesting indeed. Thanks for going to the trouble of writing to us, and for recognizing that we care.
If you answer I will be surprised, but, did you (K&K) or anyone in your team ever interact as SB users? If so, who?
Thanks again for keeping it running as long as you did.
Jaguarior
WHAT? I was just gonna read my daily soapbox, so its really over? Why can't you just keep it up and leave it alone... this sucks! Or, at least keep the threads up so we can reread them and reminisce. I want to thank every one that made this site so addictive: Saintethan, Wonko, Mac, T1G, Unfullfilled, RA, Nevermore/Icy Green, Fishstyxxs, Tierney, misshell, Borg Clown, Jag, Kor and Klo, the Rev, Anarchir and everyone else I forgot.
lusternlust
I think your experiment needs to be repeated. The results need to be verified. So just set us up and we'll take it from there. :p
Thank you for giving us SB for the time you did. I really enjoyed being there and meeting most of the others.
I just do not understand why, if you are done studying SB, you can't hand it over to someone who would like to see it continue. Isn't there any chance for that?
As we all know, I'd gladly take a bullet for Soapboxxer. I have been a long-time contributer and I am left unfulfilled by your insincere explanation of its demise. It's all from a business / tech point of view and basically you're telling us that your pet project didn't blossom as you expected it to and now you're taking it away from those who are committed to its success.
"If you think about it often the best thing about a piece of content is not the content itself but the discussion that ensues." - I've had my fair share of discourse on SB and I thank you for providing a wonderful site that enables such discussions. If it's the 'best thing' then why put an end to it?
"Now, we're an ecommerce company, and so we constantly work to improve the site and the interaction rates of our customers." - I highly doubt that. Many of us have written you (admin) about ways to improve the site and have made countless suggestions in our threads and opinions - all of which went ignored. We've offered to moderate and even take over the site and make our own improvements and run the show, but no; your solution is dismissive and destructive. When was the last time you honestly made an attempt at improving the site?
"Of course, if SoapBoxxer became the next Digg we wouldn't exactly complain." I'm sure craigslist isn't stoked about not being eBay but they're still in business. Again, sorry your project didn't blossom out to what you wanted it to become. it's really sad that money and profits were really your motivation.
"4. The community will control spam if given the tools" Tools? like flagging? Did you ever stop to notice how counter-productive that was? It clogged the feed and the spammers never went away. A simple solution, as I told you in an email, is simple: program the site so you can't use HTML in the opinion. A minor tweak and you could've kept a lot of people's interest.
"5. Every loophole will be exploited" - so will its users.
"I won't get into the details here, but you'll have to trust me on this – some people like to ruin things for other people.…..there are people that will silently and anonymously attempt to destroy what other people are working on with no apparent gain." - What? Like YOU??
"We tried everything to grow SoapBoxxer…..We focused on user invitations as a means for growing our network….In the end, it has become clear that SoapBoxxer will not grow on its
own." - Uh, yeah, we didn't build this site. Granted the site became what it was due to our involvement, so in essence, we did in fact build the site. However, it's your invention, your investment. I'm no Charles Schwabb, but you've got to protect your investments! If I had created such a site (and I will) I would be in there like swim wear trying to make sure it was a well-oiled machine before I decided to cool my heels and assume that the site would just 'grow on its own'. I honestly didn't invite a lot of my friends because A) they weren't interested in it when I told them about it and B) they wouldn't have fit in to our awesome and sometimes elite crowd and C) I liked it that our site was small - which obviously didn't work for you.
In closing, I've had a great time on this site and I can honestly say that I grew as a person and I hope that I helped other grow as well. We all tried our best here as far as interaction and trying to keep the site going (your job), but the way it closed has left a bad taste in my mouth. I thank you for the idea and the concept and I wish you luck on your future endeavors but I hope to hell that either I'm not part of them or that your team improves on itself.
What it comes down to is that it isn't how clever you can design a site or what your profit margin could be. It's the people. I honestly joined because I read some of the comments and I couldn't help but jump in. To name names, it was Macnamera who made me want to be a Soapboxxer; I couldn't resist his candor and I wanted to be a class clown right along with him. I also wanted to interact with intellectual people like RA and Unfulfilled and share ideas. Keep in mind, the average person on the web is looking for porn. Count yourself lucky that we all dropped in to participate. I, for one, count myself lucky to have had this experience and also lucky to have met so many interesting people that I'm now proud to call my friends.
Thank-you to everyone.
--Saintethan the Great.
Analysis is what I do,m and I'm particularly interested in (among other things) how people use technology, so I'm going to throw in my two cents here. I don't expect to ever get a response to this, but that's never stopped me before. My objective here is not to gripe, point fingers, blame, or otherwise air my grievances; this is strictly my analysis as a philosopher of technology.
First of all, I'd like to join the others here in thanking you for putting this site together. It was an original and rather unique idea that worked pretty well. I met some quite amazing people here--many of whom have posted on this comment thread--and I'm grateful for that. I know you put quite a bit of work into designing the site, and I appreciate that too. Well done.
SoapBoxxer got a lot of things right. The simple, uncluttered, intuitive interface was a stroke of genius--it created an interesting forum/chatroom hybrid that gave a very different experience than most other sites with a similar function. Auth was similarly a good idea: people like objective systems of measurement, even when those systems don't really measure anything of real value. I'm certain that having a value tied to my participation here made me all the more interested in contributing. A lot more could have been done with auth, but it was a good idea from the start.
That said, if your motives were truly to explore the issues you raised in this blog post, I'm not convinced this was a very well designed experiment. Social networking sites--as I'm sure you know--are centered around the "Web 2.0" model of user-driven content; SB, like other sites of its kind, was driven primarily by the participation of users. Still, it's important to recognize that unless users are given complete (or almost complete) control--Wikipedia is a great example of this kind of structure--an active administrative team is almost as important as an active user-base; this is especially crucial during a site's early life. People are drawn to social networking sites when they get a sense that there's a vibrant community in which they can be active participants, and this impression is at least partially conveyed through an active and engaged administrative team.
In light of this, it should come as no surprise that user recruitment and retention both began to drop off as your involvement in the site began to wane. When suggestions began to go unheeded and emails unanswered, a clear message was conveyed to new and old users alike: this site is not being actively improved or maintained. While you might contend that it was already apparent at that point that SB was not going to succeed as a profit-making venture, I would certainly beg to differ; the greatest social networking sites are not constructed overnight, and expecting to found a massive and vibrant community with a modicum of effort in mere months is not a realistic goal, no matter how sound your design model may be. When users began to get the sense that SB had been abandoned by its administrative team, the general mood shifted away from excitement and optimism and toward complacency (at best) and frustrated pessimism (at worst). Users began to leave the site in droves, which undoubtedly only reinforced your perception that the SB model was unsound.
By far the most difficult part of starting a new community is the capturing and retention of a core group of loyal and dependable users who are willing to contribute time and effort to the betterment of that community; in this, you succeeded. However, instead of utilizing this core group as you should have--that is, instead of tapping those who wanted to contribute their time and intellects (for free, I might add)--you chose to ignore both our requests for change and offers to help. This was a mistake of epic proportions.
Let me put my point succinctly if I can: SoapBoxxer was an amazing idea that was very poorly executed. Either the administrative team almost immediately lost interest, or the company as a whole was looking for a totally unrealistic timetable of growth. If, instead of abandoning the site at its most crucial stage, development had continued for (say) six more months, I have no doubt that you would now have a flourishing and vibrant community to call your own.
Finally, I would implore you once again to consider passing management of the site on to those of us who are interested in doing it for love of the community rather than profit. There are many here who would be glad to take the reins. Let them.
Regards,
Jon
RealityApologist
Well said, RA.
I find it insulting to tell us that this website was based upon monetary motives. A lot of us enjoyed your "experiment", and we all would like to continue it. There are many here that would like to take control of Soapboxxer and attempt to breathe life back into it, considering that no bad could come of this, I find it pretty malevolent to backstab all of your fanbase when all they want to do is continue your inherently great idea. This place could've been something if you wouldn't have given up after a few weeks.
man, i just got into it
I will make my comment short since other users have already
explained my point of view in great detail, and for that
they are awesome.
"6. Social networks must grow to survive"
It didnt survive because you canceled the site and abondoned it,
not because it couldnt grow.
"My favorite soapboxx of all time was an early one –"
Because you abandoned the site perhaps that is why it was an early one?
All in all I think while the results seemed very professional,
the day to day running of the site was very thoughtless
and completly unprofessional.
What would it take for you to hand the site over to one of
the dedicated users? What??
I doubt you will respond to anyone's comments, in order
to keep with the past trend.
Thanks,
for a good start but poor finish,
and for not closing it sooner,
anarchir
eat a giant bag of dicks.
sincerely,
beebabeeba
Aside from a quick note saying that I'm a rails developer and will gladly set your code up on my slicehost account and maintain it, I wanted to ask a different sort of question.
What are you all up to now? Are there other sites that you can list that you created? Are you active in any other ways in the Rails community? Do you go to conferences?
-mogis
To be fair, I'm glad you set up Soapboxxer, otherwise I wouldn't have met so many fine folks. I really wish I had pleasant things to say about you, because giving something away for free and getting ingratitude back also sucks, but whatever gratitude I felt towards you was constantly eroded by your opaqueness since June. In the end I had the feeling of being an unwanted guest in a house whose inhabitants I loved so much.
I can just wish you better luck - and better judgement - in your future projects.
Very bizarre indeed. The day I decide to check in on my soapboxxer pals, the site is shut down and discontinued. I have to say that this is a very poor choice. As the owner and progenitor, you have every right to do with your creation what you choose. However I find your reasoning to be in poor taste. It seems to me that things just got "too hard" for you and unwillingness to push through that for the community or perform any insightful innovation outside of what was bare-bones necessary is what really led to the downfall of the site. But what do I know, I am but an uncommitted user, my involvement of time could never translate into dollars in your pocket.
At least I can take solace in knowing that a Hamlet remake involving breakfast foods is an inherently good idea.
- Octopiarelovers
lovingly known as Doc Oc.
P.S. Free Pizzadilla recipe to anyone who gets in touch with me!
Admit it, this is all perpetrated by the Dharma Initiative isn't it? Did you feed Gnocchi to the polar bears? 4 8 15 16 23 42!!
Oh btw, I'm really gonna miss themed avatar days
@anonymous, who are you?
@macnamera, looks like you're the special one still. you're the only one who got a comment back from admin.
@Ethan- Thats because Mac is the Admin!! I friggin knew it! :P
Love and kisses forever
Ghecks
xxx
back acha, ghex. of course it was you.
i'm thinking about hijacking this blog and starting my own opinion just to keep things going for those in the cheap seats.
*add opinion* {don't mind if i do!}
"Soapboxxer should stay open due to the fact that there's no real reason to shut it down outside of greed." -- Saintethan
Thurs, Nov.13th, 2:45 a.m. Saintethan said: but if greed is the problem, then the solution is cash. it always has been. so...how much for soapboxxer? $100? it's less than you've lost so far. $1000 is more than you'll ever see for it at this point. I'm a reasonable man, make me an offer and I'll take it over. if they want $500 it'll cover their 'investment'. god knows if you clocked the hours i've spent on this 'experiment' (without my knowledge), I would've earned an easy 1/2 a mil at my going rate.
Vote: Agree.
Comment: I agree Ethan. There is no reason it should totally vanish just because it didn't make money without any extended cultivation. The only reason, I can think of, for taking it away would be because the excuse we were given for it disappearing was false.
Or maybe our final reactions are part of this whole 'experiment' and they will end by handing it over after toying with us. At least that is what I'm hoping. :(
You guys crack me up. Soapboxxer is gone, but you're starting to talk to each other via comments on the blog. Old habits die hard, ne?
@t1g, yep, that's what i was hoping for. show the spirit!
like it or not, SB, you've created an outspoken crowd and some of us got punk-rock with that and here is a great example: soapboxxing your 'adios' thread.
at least with this method, you can separate your comments in to paragraphs. woot!
@tierney, yeah, that's the best we can hope for at this point.
My second Opinion for this blog:
"The apple juice market is mainly targeted at infants and seniors." -- Saintethan, Nov. 13 2008 (+10 auth points.)
i would say that about the 2 kinds of person you define in your text you are likely to be in the second group.
not only you failed to hear simple suggestions from tech people on how to improve your site but also ignored their attempts to save somewhat our site.
anyways, thanks for the time you
writ
[of ethan's first]
you agreed. 100% of people agreed.
votes: 2
thewrit: but i don't know what he was thinking. if he sell the site he could earn more than simply shut it down. maybe he keeping all that knowledge to himself worths more.
@writ (+5 auth)
if they're going at it from a business point of view, this is clearly the part where they could stand to make a profit.
re: apple juice, please expand on your two types of market.
It is strange that I am the only one who got a response from Admin. And Gheckie Poo your love of conspiracy is impressive sir. As for apple juice I love the shit out of it and I am neither a infant or a senior. Pomegranate juice is better though.
a href=????? ??????? ??????? ??????????
Not so strange macnamera given that the response was left (as far as I can tell) shortly after the Dear Johns/Joans blog explaining their reasons for the breakup... And like all breakup letters it was full of cliche. It's not you, it's me.. and I just feel like the relationship was going nowhere..*near a bank deposit window*..and my favorite we'll always have “SoapBoxxer has changed my views on a lot of subjects through discussion”.. all fairly predictable stuff for someone hoping to save face while at the same time ending a long standing one sided relationship. There are after all faces to be saved and spin to be spun in any breakup. I suspect that the response you received so early in the discussion is not so different from that final call to console the unsuspecting lover looking for answers to deal with their loss. Sadly I suspect the reason there have been no further comments is because no one is listening to the messages. I'm sure kangorkodos feels they have fulfilled their obligatory explanation for the split, and probably feel we should all accept it and move on...as in it's over. I'm quite sure your message was the last one read. To them actually reading our comments would be like willingly listening to a hysterical ex-lover who keeps leaving the same blathering message on his answering machine, rather than deleting the message at the first sign of crying. Who does that for christ sake?
Laffs@greedyapplejuice :P
digit and tyrant
hanging in a tree
b-l-e-e-d-i-n-g...
Jag
That is a theory Shawn. Your post implies that you would know better than us. Hmmm very curious. Anyway what are you thoughts on apple juice?
*your
cranberry juice > apple juice
I never drrink.. vine.
-- Count Drrracula
Jag
I think cranapple is superior to both cran and apple juice alone.
Cranberry juice now that I think of it is the sluttiest of all the juices.
so.. what.. you havin' your period?
[ref: The Departed]
Ha! I love that part so much.
Yeah, mac, the cranberry sequence is Definitely a high point in a great flick, heh.
Now he's not exactly a guy you can't hit, but, I'm making a judgment call here.
Jag
Darn, forgot my sodahead password.
Oh yeah KangandKodos, you arent that creative, check out a site that has a large user base. Also Sodahead lets you use html because they trust us a bit more.
http://www.sodahead.com/?
http://siteanalytics.compete.com/sodahead.com/?metric=uv
I wouldnt say they have the same purpose, and they have the myspace people at their beckoning (users and workers), but still, dont complain.
Notice their investment.
Chocolate shakes> chocolate milk > vanilla shakes> milk>OJ> grape juice>apple juice> pomegranate juice
so am i the only one who got a "Your Daily Soapboxx" e-mail today and was wildly optimistic about the site being back?
Not that I actually participated in discussion much ...
Oh, it must be some insignificant the SB admins neglected. Try sending a feedback email.
Well Mac, my thoughts on apple juice are pretty ordinary...I believe apple juice was originally the punishment god served the rest of humanity for that little breach of trust issue he had with "the you know who's" which incidentally is also the reason why pointing a finger at the door and screaming "GET OUT" is far more popular than the socially appropriate "Please Leave" in those types of situations.
Personally, I do not care for it and will not drink it ...and not because it is the internal fluid extracted from the object of our original sin, or that it is the catalyst for our own extraction from Paradise. My reason is far more personal and haunts me every waking moment...poisoning even the simple pleasure of life by reminding me constantly of what could have been..
BUTT NEKIDNESS
24/7
All Day
Every Day.
Forgive and Forget? I think not.
Naturally, all that pent up resentfullness and time spent laying blame requires an occassional cleansing of the inner me and for that I turn to prune juice... any thoughts?
I LOVE cran-apple, but I like pomegranate better too. I also like those green machine smoothie juices but they're too expensive for daily consumption.
lusternlust
MMMMHHHHHH Original SIN!!!!
Naughty Deutsche!
I would say Shawn that your thoughts on apple juice are anything but ordinary.
@shawn, who are you? i like your writing skillz
@therestofyou: getting the daily email from sb was just cruel.
@shawn, is there any proof that the apple was in fact the fruit of original sin? i've always assumed that it was speculation by reinassance painters.
most of the bible took place in the middle east, so how do you know that it isn't figs? perhaps olives? either way, i wouldn't drink their juice.
It was actually believed to be the "apple of paradise" or pomegranate
The Mole People have a much older and more sophisticated version of this commonly plagiarized myth, and I have it on great authority (oh my poor authority--forever lost) that it was called the "potato"
I agree with the Batwoman. Apples are Erisian territory and have nothing at all to do with misogyny except for that which exists between Twat-kind.
discussionator > sodahead.
Agree? Disagree?
Nothing like being used up and tossed out.
Just like coming to and mounting for a warm embrace and a soft sweet kiss, only to see who you thought was your lover pulling a $20 from their wallet with the words "You were great. Do you have a card?" falling languidly from just the same lips you thought only hours earlier were the ones that would ask you away from this life of disgrace. In that warm morning sun, under those soft sheets, a hard, ridged, and bleak realization occurs - you're not Julia Roberts, there will be no Rodeo shopping trip, you're in a Super 8 in fucking Toledo, Richard Gear just tipped you a twenty for the best deep-throat, gag suppressed, earth shattering blow job you've ever given in your life, and apparently, the guy is nothing like the characters he plays in ANY of his crap movies. You just can't help feeling the fool.
Cheap bastard. I let you paint my tonsils.
I hope your happy!
IN ALL Seriousness - it was fun, but what a waste. Apparently you're creative ability abandoned you shortly after your original thought.
A million ways take it and you stop short and quit?
That muse - she sure is a bitch.
HocusPoker
That was the best extended hooker metaphor I've seen today. Bravo.
Thanks chief.
Be well.
I can tell you why the site died. There was a 6.5 month gap between updates from the site creator. I came around in early May and left towards the end of the month when it became painfully obvious the site was no longer actively developed.
AGREE DISAGREE
+666 auth
Good enough to fuck, just not good enough to marry.
Gheck
"Social networks must grow to survive"
No shit, Sherlock's. Maybe if you continuously helped it grow, things would have been different?
Gotta agree with Rudy. And I always thought that the fruit from the forbidden tree was more of a metaphor anyway, and would have much rather preferred that Eve ate a vegetable instead because that really is a punishment in and of itself. Think of it as brussels sprouts or zucchini. According to this link, apples are evil, but according to google, the arabs thought it was a fig. Either way, it may have been worth it since we supposedly gained knowlege and some form of tasty edible. Not to mention an ongoing alliance with tree serpents.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i1/apple.asp
Great work guys, congratulations on what was a fantastically fun site to waste time and vent on.
Sad to see soapboxxer go, there's far too few sites on the web of this nature - avanoo used to be similar before they rejigged the way they worked.
So long and thanks for all the wit.
woodbot
Well anyway, you can reach me at mrwizard@schoolbuscast.com, and I hope that this community does move somewhere else, because it is a good one.
And yes, it seriously sucks that you guys shut down the site.
Anyone Still Here, or should I hit the lights on my way out?
~~que the music~~
The Partys over.....
Who are you Shawn?
Don't hit those lights yet, shawn. first, you have to disclose who the hell you are! you know, for the curious.
@anarchir, i had the same thoughts that it was a fig. it makes sense based on the geography. i've been on that genesis site looking for a couple of answers to some of my questions on the foundations of Genesis. I have a slew of questions on sodahead about the 'birth' of good and evil and how the concept of sin came about. my first question was this: why did satan fall from heaven? i've had a myriad of responses and they all vary. in fact, i've gotten so many replies across the board from asking that question that i'm considering writing a book for it. let me know what you think. that goes for anyone else who cares to answer.
I do not remember a lot of what I learned from the bible in the past, and from what I remember the people who taught me glazed over such controversial topics as being kicked out of heaven.
I always got the impression that the devil was kicked out because he rebelled against gods' authority. I never really thought it was a specific act that they were describing but more of a denial that god had power over him.
Denying gods power must have been caused by some revelation, and that revelation seems to be also represented in the "forbidden fruit" from the "tree of knowledge" also known as the "tree of conscience". It is fitting then that after he himself became conscious of his own power and freedom that he passed it along to Adam and Eve immediately afterward.
When you look back on the bible not as a history book but as a creation of the Church (capital c), it becomes more clear as to what Satan represents. I believe Satan represents all that the Church despises and wishes to remove from the world. He represents rebellion against authority, and the belief that everyman can be his own god. He represents the individuals consciousness and free thought. This is against the Church who wish to control both action, knowledge and thought mainly through fear. The fear of Satan, fear of hell, and the fear of god's divine vengeance. It is why Satan's punishments are evil while God's are good. Why bibles were originally written so that only priests (and the like) could read them. Why modern churches in this modern society that allows more free thought no longer renounce Satan nearly as much, but rather spend time reveling in God's virtues.
Controls of life like the Church are why I like the Universal Life Church so much. By breaking down barriers and weakening the authority automatically given to someone with "reverend" or some other title in front of their name, it brings more equality and less fear to society.
These are just my thoughts off the top of my head, but what do I know.
I haven't even read the entire bible, though I have studied it years ago.
You should write a book on the topic Ethan, I'm sure you could make it interesting and spark a good debate.
~anarchir~
Add Opinion: "Jesus coined the phrase 'No Pain, No Gain'." -- Saintethan (777,777 Auth)
@Ethan I'm just a guy from Seattle who used to enjoy SB in between playing world of warcraft and my real life, if having one of those is possible when Playing WoW. For some reason, posting in the comments here, my user name went from mushkasdad (which is how it showed when commenting on SB) to my first name. Unfortunately, I was one of those people who visited the sight more from a visitors perspective rather than taking an participatory role. I always spent alot of time reading the arguments people had for their votes and thought to myself "Self, this will be your 12 step program for recovering from that World of Warcraft addiction" Sadly, the knowledge that this site is no more, has effectively silenced those inner voices of reason, which had been gaining ground on the fight for recovery...(well that and last Thursday's release of the Wrath of the Lich King expansion) Seriously though, it's a bit ironic that when I first discovered SB and realized it would be a healthier alternative to 10 hours of killing orcs and the undead every day, I almost posted "SoapBoxxer.com will still be in operation one year from today" but did because I thought it was a stupid question. Which brings me to todays comment.. "If people had eyes in the back of their heads, Hindsight would be a reporter on 20/20" which is another stupid question, but given my past experience, I expect the first wave of four eyed children to be born any day now. I hope something comes from all this dialogue...an alternative to what was going on here. For me, someone who requires a swift kick in the head to realize the obvious, this really is a case of not appreciating something till it's gone. I just hope that if a phoenix does rise here, that I, at least, see the glow as it takes flight. I'd hate to miss it.
I wonder how many lurkers we had at SB? I use to only lurk at other sites.
SB was my first in participation. I still cannot fully believe it is gone.
I do sort of feel like a jilted lover. Betrayed by the one I offered my virginity to, at that. :(
I was more of a lurker during the last few weeks towards the end. Hope was lost so I just breezed through here and read questions and answers. People werent responding frequent enough so I just cruised right through.
I'm in the process of building another site for us. hang tight. btw, i'm open for ideas. you can send them directly to me at saintethan@gmail.com or post them here...for however long this blog lasts. email is prefered.
you guys rock, help me help you.
$t.e
@anarchir- I was at the end too. I was withdrawing which wasn't cool.
@Ethan- Great! I 'll probably be banned from it lightening fast though. :p
For those of you who wanted to know where Soapboxxer Tee-shirts came from; here it is: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3186/2673209004_780cdf7ede_t.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/sxsw08/%3Fpage%3D5&usg=__azYugGrat9Jlsq0DNWMN4-UNvZc=&h=75&w=100&sz=4&hl=en&start=5&tbnid=GDCG7o5yDf0cUM:&tbnh=61&tbnw=82&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsoapboxxer.com%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG
@tierney, c'mon. how could i think of you wanting me to not think of me not inviting you?
@Ethan- I think I love you :P
Cant wait for you site to be up and running!
Gheck
Ethan- haha... put down the r00r and then type next time. And thanks! :)
SB was fun site, and I really enjoyed trolling it. 95% of the users were really stupid and fell for my trolling - making me a successful troll. Anyone who took SB seriously was really a moron because the site was obviously a broken system.
SB reminded me of this Internet cartoon of a guy sitting at his computer and his wife is calling him to bed. The guy at the computer says, "Not now, someone on the Internet is wrong". The only thing that bothered me about SB and Digg as well, is that both suffer for too much group think.
The site could've actually been successful with some security fixes and refining the opinion/comment system. And when I mean by successful, I mean generating enough revenue to run the site and have a little profit. That would be good for a company with 2 or 3 people in it, but not for a larger company. So I can see why SB was shut down. It was a good experiment and I'm glad you posted some of your results.
@JT, i wouldn't say we were stupid for engaging you. i thought some of your trollish postings were entertaining, like the one about gay men pushing your stool in. i laughed pretty hard about that. it's funny to see you write in this blog with a somewhat serious tone. everyone knew you were joking, but sometimes you went too far. people take remarks that are targeted at discriminating against a certain group (blacks, homosexuals) personally. no one likes a hater.
JT refers to this comic: http://xkcd.com/386/
It is hilarious to me that after months of obvious trolling that JT's big reveal was that he/she was a troll. No one thought you were anything other than that. If you think for one second anyone actually took you seriously then I suggest you step away from the acid because you are tripping pretty already.
laff@mac,
JT's clearly shrooming.
New Opinion:
"While the book "Temporary Autonomous Zone" is filled with chaos and insanity, you can still learn quite a bit from it.
http://www.hermetic.com/bey/taz_cont.html
JT, a troll? Well you learn something new everyday...
anyway, see Macnamera, Vintage April, Murple, Mr Angry, BorgClown, Joaquimds and (erm) others around. RWHickman, out.
P.s. Also, *snap*
P.P.S sebastian- DO IT! DO IT NOWWWWWWWW!
p.p.p.s it will list me as anom. even though I am RWHickman (I have photos)
Also (damn too many p.s') in our school we have a house drama compettion thingy. Anyway, there is a chance ( a small one mind) that our play may be omlet.
Who needs to spend money for bandwidth and hosting when we have a perfectly acceptable soapboxxer replacement in this blog post comment thread? It may not have the fancy red SB logo but it will do the job - anonymous (+1000 auth)
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